Next-Gen AI in Apartment Leasing with Matt Service, COO of Apartment List

Nate Smoyer (00:01.39)
Matt, welcome to the show.

Matt (00:02.882)
Hey Nate, thanks for having me.

Nate Smoyer (00:05.39)
It's a pleasure to have you here. You know, at one point, I have to tell you this, everyone who was in the Rentals game was in a spreadsheet that I maintained and I considered all of you my competition.

Just because if you go to Google and you type in list or rental, anyone who showed up in that, whether it was an ad or organic, I literally put you in the category of my listings competitors. And there's like 120, it's like 120. And I would look at this list and I had like a top 10 list, an apartment list was in that top 10 list of like.

you're not going to, I would literally think about this all the time. Like you're not going to beat me. I'm going to get the mom, pop landlords. You're not going to beat me. But I'm so glad that we're past that and we get to have a more fun conversation here today. For those who are listening, I've got Matt service. He is currently the COO at apartment list. Also previously served as the CFO of the company apartment list.

Shortly described is the leading matchmaking rental marketplace in the country. And that's actually where I'd like to kick off if we can. Just being a matchmaking versus traditional marketplace ILS, where's the advantage here in differentiating, breaking through some of the noise of the market?

Matt (01:17.382)
Great.

Matt (01:29.554)
Yeah, I mean, I think that that is the word used is the key is that as we take a differentiated approach. And I think you see that in our user experience, right, right from the jump. It's very different from some of the other ILSs or internet listing services. You know, going through a rental process is a very complicated, huge financial burden and very challenging for the average renter. So.

What we do is actually go through and there's a series of questions that we'll actually ask every renter when they're starting their search on our platform to allow us to understand really what's most important for them and then really surface the right results for them and the right matches. And it also enables us to do things like surfacing trade -offs, which are very important, right? Rarely are you going to find that perfect apartment that matches the location, the commute length.

the all of the amenities that you want in the price. And so actually being able to surface these trade -offs to the renters is where we add a lot of value and really that the matchmaker component comes in. So for example, it's like, hey, you said you wanted a 20 minute commute and you and you wanted to spend $1 a month. Well, would you be interested in saving $300 a month for an extra five minute drive to work? Is that something you'd be interested in? And so.

That's where the matchmaking really comes in. And it's really, the other thing I would say is it's really, we really lean on technology to do that. We're really leverage, we really consider ourselves at our heart to be a technology company. And so we're really looking for technology -based solutions that help solve the challenges that both renters and also the property managers have throughout the rental process.

Nate Smoyer (03:09.238)
Mm -hmm.

Nate Smoyer (03:21.102)
I do love that. And yeah, I agree with you. The very first thing that you hit when you said, like when you even just get to the site, you immediately know that this is different. It's not just, it's not the standard, just like there's a grid pattern and, you know, and search from that perspective, you know, and you see the different rental tools and you kind of talked about it actually, like the rent calculator or cost of living calculator, which.

Matt (03:36.53)
Dots on a map.

Nate Smoyer (03:44.11)
Honestly, this would have been a whole lot easier when I moved to Chicago if I had, if I'd known it had been a little bit more educated because I kind of went down this, like these comparisons. I was like evaluating like, what's the cost going to be just for month to month so I can adjust my budget. And then I had, we did end up finding a realtor and I gave her a list. I said, I want you to know, first off, I'm unrealistic and I'm also not going to budge. And here's my criteria, right? And we did.

Matt (04:00.046)
Yep.

Nate Smoyer (04:14.064)
We did actually budge on a few things, but exactly like you said, we ended up budging on the in -unit washer dryer to stay in budget.

Matt (04:15.952)
Yeah.

Matt (04:20.05)
Right. Well, well, well, and to your point, I mean, it's, it's a journey, right? Like what you go in with is very often, you know, your, your, your preferences change based on the education, understanding the market. Uh, you might end up figuring out you have to pay a little more than you wanted to, or, and, and also it comes back to what those trade -offs are, right? Like to get to what, what's really important to you and what are you willing to pay for it? And so that is, I think one of the core.

Nate Smoyer (04:40.758)
Yeah.

Matt (04:48.53)
benefits renters get from our platform is actually being able to surface those trade -offs in a really effective, seamless way.

Nate Smoyer (04:57.582)
Yeah, I do love that. You know, it's been a really interesting time to be in the rentals industry the last few years. We've really seen quite a few ebbs and flows of varying degrees. And I would say we're still, you know, the market is always somewhat moving, but the movements have been far more pronounced the last few years. You know, you...

Matt (05:05.746)
It has.

Matt (05:20.69)
Yes, 100%.

Nate Smoyer (05:23.054)
You lead operations and you guys are communicating with agents and management companies and renters across the country. How would you describe what you're seeing in the industry right now and what are you guys doing to respond to the demands of the market?

Matt (05:38.962)
Yeah, I'd say a couple of things come top of mind. And you mentioned the swings. They've been wild since COVID. I can't tell you how many times over the last few years I said, well, I think we're through it. And that proved not to be true. I do think we are quote unquote through it now, but there's still, you know,

Nate Smoyer (05:54.606)
Hahaha

Nate Smoyer (05:59.182)
Yeah.

Matt (06:07.202)
swings as you as you referenced always happening in the market. I think one of the big ones is particularly in terms of multifamily, which is where apartment list, you know, plays predominantly is there is an unprecedented, I think historic highs of new construction coming into the market. And so that's so so I think it's like a million new units are being finished and released into the market.

And so that is really driving up overall vacancy rates in the industry. And that is coupled with some historic lows actually in terms of rent or demand. So it's, it's, it's a little bit of a perfect storm. And so that's a really big trend that we are working with our property manager partners to, to, to help them address and navigate through.

Nate Smoyer (07:02.318)
Yeah, it's just funny how, I mean, well, the challenge with bringing on new inventory, especially in multifamily is there's such a long lead time. You know, just the development and permitting process in most major metros has, you know, become comical, I think by many standards. And, you know, to try and forecast what the rents are gonna be and to build the right product that someone may want or people are gonna want in a large amount, two, three years in advance. I mean, that...

Matt (07:13.426)
Yes.

Nate Smoyer (07:32.27)
It just seems almost an impossible task. I feel for the developers in that, looking at projects coming to completion and vacancy rates are actually increasing a little bit here with waning demand. Do you guys work with new construction as well on helping them get their units online and trying to help them fill them? Or is that something that isn't really on your radar?

Matt (07:48.966)
No, we absolutely do. It's a core part of our value proposition and where our platform really adds a lot of value to our partners in terms of those either net new construction or redevelopment projects where they've effectively got a 200 unit property that has

zero percent, you know, a hundred percent vacancy rates. So we're able to add a lot of value with our platform and our, and our tools in terms of helping them fill, fill, fill those properties up as, as quickly as they can.

Nate Smoyer (08:31.214)
Now another thing that you guys are maybe doing a little bit different, or I would say even just, maybe not just different, leading. You guys recently took away a nice award out of, it was announced out of Philly, which by the way, I'm from the Philly area, so 215610, shout out. But for some of your work in AI,

which was kind of built on the foundation of like an early stage startup that you guys had acquired a few years ago. Can you talk to me a little bit about that, the product, Lea, that you guys have really received some positive recognition for?

Matt (09:05.234)
Yeah, yeah, happy to do that. I would say just the quick history behind that. I mentioned earlier, we consider ourselves to be a technology company. And so we're always looking for new technologies that can help us accelerate our mission and solve the core pain points for both renters and property management managers. And so we started looking into AI and its applications within our space in early 2021. And

quickly became really excited about its potential and decided it was an area that we wanted to invest in. And so basically went through a significant amount of research and discovery, kind of looking at the landscape. And ultimately we made the decision to acquire Diffrent, which is, as you said, was a very early stage Israeli based AI technology provider company.

Nate Smoyer (09:33.422)
Hmm.

Matt (09:58.514)
And so the way we thought about it is acquiring the company really gave us that core team of AI expertise, kind of foundation for us. And then we also acquired their core kind of technology, which provided the foundation, which we built Leah on, which is the product you're referring to that just received the award, which we launched in 2022. So Leah is an AI -based leasing agent.

And so effectively, it is used by property managers to basically provide a better renter experience to the renters and frankly, fill their vacant units faster and more efficiently from a staff and resourcing perspective.

Nate Smoyer (10:49.422)
And I have some notes that I got from your team here that I think I can share these numbers here. If not, I'll go back and edit them out. Or you guys can yell at me after I publish. But seven million renters have used Leah.

in some part of their transaction. And I think this is important. I want to point this out here. Like when I was just talking to another founder yesterday, and we were talking about some of the text and voice AI for like customer service right now. And it was a lot of, there was some hesitancy on the idea of doing that. I'm like, not sure. And I get it based on the, either the service or the product or company you would go with to facilitate some of that AI.

Matt (11:06.354)
Yes. Yep. Yep.

Nate Smoyer (11:35.586)
conversation, but you guys have done it with seven million. That's a pretty sizable sample to have worked with and on something complicated like apartments. I the range of questions you might get asked or the needs that come up and there's some nuances in real estate. You know, what have you guys learned in that process of like,

Matt (11:54.77)
you

Nate Smoyer (11:57.166)
either fine tuning the AI or what you can trust and can't trust, and even how much do you have to monitor what's being done between the customer and AI tools?

Matt (12:08.466)
Yeah, a couple of things on that. Yeah. So I think the seven million renters we've helped and the NRAI has worked with is something we're very proud of. But why it's important is because AI is constantly learning. Basically AI is only as good as the data that it has to essentially answer the questions on. And so we think that we've got the largest data set in the industry, which

which really makes our AI just so much better in terms of its ability to interact with renters in high quality ways. And I think to your point, that our partners are putting a lot of trust in us. Our technology is effectively representing them and their brand. And so the most important thing that we've learned is, renter experience is paramount. Regardless of what you do, the renters,

Nate Smoyer (12:58.028)
Mmm.

Matt (13:06.738)
It has to be a great experience for the renters. And so that is effectively the basis of everything we do every day. And we're always improving the product. That's the other thing about it. It's never finished. We're always making it better. We're always improving it. We are constantly monitoring it for conversations that could have been better. And...

things that potentially it missed or misunderstood. And so we are constantly working on improving it. And I'm pretty proud of where it is. It's come a long way since we originally launched it. And I think that's represented. And it was nice to get the recognition for the team for all the work they did in the award we recently received.

Nate Smoyer (13:55.79)
Yeah, and I would even lean into, you know, you kind of talked about, you know, working with agents in the process. And of course, if you're working in multifamily metro areas, like you're going to have a lot more agent activity than you might have in like the, like a market I live in.

We just have a neighborhood Facebook group. We know how what's available or not. Okay? 68 % more lead to tour conversions. And I think in the apartments game, getting that tour, getting the person to show up and visit is really all part of that sales funnel through to assigned lease. So when you think about that 68 % more lead to tour conversions, first off, what, you know, why did you

you focus in on that metric, but also what's been the response from agents who start seeing that increase?

Matt (14:47.478)
Yeah, well, so first off, I think that's a metric I'm very proud of. I think, you know, I mentioned that the renter experience has to be great and that's kind of table stakes. But on top of that, the product has to be delivering value to the leasing agents and to the property managers. And so the conversion rate actually getting those renters in the door,

and getting them to come and visit and tour the property is a really key kind of metric and representative bringing them down the funnel. And that's also just a really great handoff point for the leasing agents that we work with. Because again, our technology, what it's really all about is complementing what the leasing agents do. And really what it allows them to do is focus on having a fewer number of higher quality interactions.

So they're not having to deal with answering the phone, figuring out if the complex has a swimming pool or a gym. They can really focus in on really engaging with these renters when they're there in person, the property, and actually touring a unit that they're actually looking at renting. And so that's why that metric is so important to us and we focus on it. And I think it's also just a great...

obviously whenever you're increasing those conversion rates, that means that you are really bringing more of those prospective renters into the property. And so there's a very tight correlation between tours and then actually getting them to sign a lease and move into the apartment. So it's a great measure of the value that Leah is delivering to the properties.

Nate Smoyer (16:38.702)
I think it's pretty significant and actually when I read that what stood out to me was because of the increase in virtual touring. You know, it was a lot easier to do a virtual tour and it's not to say virtual tours are bad, but...

they're far more ubiquitous of, I don't have to go there. I don't have to step foot in. I can actually just look at 10x the number of apartments. But actually leveraging tech to get person -to -person contact, I think that's what actually stood out to me because I think sometimes we miss that in PropTech. We miss that this industry still is very much a person -to -person type service industry.

Matt (17:18.034)
I 100 % agree with that. I mean, if you think about it, it's one of the most considered purchases someone makes. And where you live is pretty much the most important thing in your life. And so I think you're gonna wanna come and see it in person. You're gonna wanna touch it, you're gonna wanna feel it, you're gonna wanna look out the window and...

and see what the view looks like and get a feel for that. And so I think virtual tours are great. It's really an important tool in the overall discovery process to help you narrow down which of those apartments, you know, if you start, if you start with 20, right, which are, which are the three or four that you actually want to actually take the time to come and visit in person. So virtual tours are great, but there's the, it,

Technology in general and virtual tours is never going to replace that human touch and that making it tangible by actually stepping foot on the property, feeling it, smelling it, seeing it, no technology is going to be able to replace that.

Nate Smoyer (18:27.662)
Yeah. And in true tech company fashion, you guys barely have time to accept the award and you're already launching the next wave, if you will, of Leah. We can talk about on the show here because by the time this goes live.

The press release will be live. Otherwise, I'm really going to hear it from your people if I release this too soon. Leah Pro, let's talk about Leah Pro. What's the changes or the innovations that you guys have built on top of Leah?

Matt (18:49.586)
Yeah. Yeah.

Matt (18:59.666)
Yeah, we're really excited about Leah Pro. Leah Pro is the next generation product with just so many more capabilities than originally Leah. So the first thing about Leah Pro is the core conversation engine is 100 % generative AI, which enables massive advancements.

and conversation quality and comprehension. I mentioned earlier and highlighted just the kind of the guiding light of renter experience. And so that's all about comprehension and conversation quality. So what really sets Leah Pro apart is the natural seamless nature of these conversations. It doesn't feel like you're talking to a scripted chat bot. And so...

Nate Smoyer (19:53.774)
Mm.

Matt (19:55.41)
you're actually feeling like you're engaging and having a conversation. There was a partner, I remember several months ago, I was showing him the demo and he was like, I actually feel like it's pausing to almost like take a breath, obviously it's technology, so it's not, but I thought that was just a great example of the advancement in the technology. You still know that you're not talking to a human, just to be clear.

Um, but it, it, it just, it, it's just much more of a, of a natural conversation. And so you're able to get just much higher levels of engagement and again, improved render experience. So, so that's the first thing. I think the other thing that the generative AI really unlocks is a bunch of extra capabilities. Um, and so, um, it really, what the appro is, it isn't just reactive. It doesn't just sit there and wait to be asked, asked a question.

asked a question and answer it, it's able to proactively actually reach out to prospects and engage with them. Think about it along the lines of actually what a leasing agent would do in terms of the sales process. So a lead comes in, it's actually able to reach back out to them. The other thing about it is it's what we call omni -channel. So, Leah Pro can communicate across voice, email, chat,

Nate Smoyer (21:07.726)
Mm -hmm.

Matt (21:23.818)
Chatbot and also text and so it basically has all these channels of communication Available to it. And so what might happen as a renter is you might go on a property website You might fill in a lead form and say hey, I'm interested Leah pro can actually call that renter and engage with them asking it a series of discovery questions in terms of finding out what is what's most important to it and

Nate Smoyer (21:26.988)
Mm -hmm.

Matt (21:52.434)
Also, if they've got any concerns to overcome objections. And so one of the things, a couple of things I like to say about it, it's, it's for Leah pro it's, it really changes the game. So it's not about the questions that it answers. It's actually about the questions it's able to ask. And then really the distinction I would make is it's actually selling the unit before the tour. Usually all the selling happens after the renter comes in.

Nate Smoyer (22:15.118)
Hmm.

Matt (22:19.058)
And so it's really a set of capabilities that we are really excited about, both from the renter experience, we're able to deliver to the renters, and also in terms of the property managers and those leasing agents in terms of the value it's able to deliver to them, both in terms of just efficiency, we talked about that in terms of being able to focus their time, and also outcomes, those all important conversion rates.

And so the product hasn't been released yet in terms of these new capabilities, but just the core conversation engine, we've been piloting it with some of the conversations that we have. And we've seen uplifts in all of those metrics, both in terms of render engagement and also conversion rates. So it's really, really exciting.

Nate Smoyer (23:10.382)
Very super cool, yeah. I can see how some of that discovery, some of those basic early question answering, but also if the lead comes in it, which just happens, people will be shopping and they'll submit, I want more info at 11 p .m.

you're not really gonna call that person back at 11 p .m. And I know sometimes like automated texts would go out, I don't know if you guys send it right away, but like I could envision here, hey, this makes a lot of more sense to like, it would know then I'm assuming like it'll know to call at 8 a .m. the next morning or, you know, like a decent time, not necessarily call right back.

Matt (23:43.422)
Yeah, it's a great point. I mean, a big part of improving the renter experience is meeting the renters where they are and being able to respond to them after hours, frankly. You know, if you think about it, that's no surprise. That's when a lot of the rental search activity happens when people aren't working either, either when they're home in the evening or on weekends. And if you're in it searching for an apartment,

Nate Smoyer (24:04.576)
Mm -hmm.

Matt (24:11.442)
You don't want to wait till Monday morning to get a response to your email. Um, that's not a good experience. And, or, or if you're actually calling into a property, do you want to be leaving a voicemail and hoping that someone's going to call back in a, in a, in a timely fashion? So that's, that's absolutely like a core area where we add a lot of value to the renter experience. Actually, we know from, um, from Leah that actually 55 % of the interactions occur after hours.

Nate Smoyer (24:15.02)
Yeah.

Nate Smoyer (24:25.196)
Nope.

Nate Smoyer (24:40.046)
Yeah, I don't know if you know this, in a past life I was a real estate agent. And so when those leads came in, basically you have less than five minutes to get back to that lead.

Matt (24:50.724)
Yeah.

Nate Smoyer (24:53.218)
Otherwise you just know that they're already talking to someone else. You know, your chances of reaching that person go down. But if you're out with a client, this is, you know, this is the pain and pressure that agents feel all the time. You're with a client, you're on an appointment and that phone rings and you have to move it to the voicemail because you have to be in the moment. You know, so I can see how immediately like something like this would be such a huge relief knowing that you don't have to necessarily miss those calls or miss those messages and you can

Matt (25:10.238)
Ha.

Nate Smoyer (25:23.104)
actually have a response back to someone versus just moving the voicemail.

Matt (25:24.27)
Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, as we talked about, it's all about delivering that improved renter experience, which is very much meeting renters where they are, when they want the information. I think the other thing about it is it's even more important today for the property managers and the leasing agents than it has been. I mentioned all the new construction that's coming into the market and the higher vacancy rates.

with the lower demand. So it's just gotten way more competitive, right? Which again, as you referenced from your experience, just makes it all the more important to be there and be ready to engage the renters whenever they're ready to engage. And that's one of the core areas of value that that Lea Pro brings to the table.

Nate Smoyer (25:56.246)
Yeah.

Nate Smoyer (26:18.51)
Yeah, and so, you know, I wanted to kind of take a step back here and maybe because the conversation of AI, of course, comes up everywhere you go anymore. You know, it is not the modern day blockchain. But I mean, at one point, you know, blockchain was the conversation everywhere you went. I really think that we're seeing, we're actually seeing the utility here much faster.

But it also means that there's kind of a rush. There's AI tools every angle you go. There's every variation. And for brokers and property managers, they're already inundated with lots of different technology, product pitches, and service offerings from across the market. So for agents and property managers, building owner -operators, what should they be considering? You know, they're looking at different options of tools that are claimed to use AI for conversations.

whether it's by voice or text and email, which they'd be looking at to consider is this a good fit for their business and for where they're at.

Matt (27:24.396)
Yeah, that's a great question, Nate. I think it is an extremely fast moving space, and particularly with last year with the introduction of ChatGPT, I think good news, bad news on that front is one, it really brought it into the forefront and made it, everyone helped people understand it and also accept it.

Nate Smoyer (27:39.278)
Mm -hmm.

Matt (27:52.466)
both from a consumer perspective, but also from a commercial perspective. So it really accelerated things from that perspective. The other thing that it did is it really raised the bar. The expectations in terms of the AI's capabilities and the all -important render experience and just the conversation quality and comprehension, it's table stakes now, right? And so if you're a property manager looking into AI,

Nate Smoyer (27:56.236)
Mm -hmm.

Matt (28:22.194)
I think that's the most important thing you should be evaluating. Because again, it's effectively representing your brand. It is effectively one of your leasing agents. And again, in an increasingly competitive market where the properties are fighting for these renters, it's got to be great. And so again,

Nate Smoyer (28:31.83)
Mm -hmm.

Matt (28:49.394)
That just comes back to the conversation quality and I think the capabilities. And so it sounds basic, but again, it's just the most important thing.

Nate Smoyer (29:02.542)
Yeah, well obviously you guys have been investing this for several years, you know, really built up a core base team to, you know, advance with. I think you guys may have been a little bit earlier than many other prop techs. And it seems to be showing based on the accomplishments that you guys are able to tell at this point. We're going to move into the bottom show, my favorite segment. I like to call this for the future. Matt, do you know this segment? Have you heard this one before?

Matt (29:28.626)
I do not. I'm ready for it though.

Nate Smoyer (29:31.18)
Oh, here we go. Yeah, we did not prep you for this. For the futures, when I could ask each guest who comes on a show to give their best predictions based on the following four questions. You've already said you're ready to play. So let's do this. Number one, what does apartment list look like when you're from now?

Matt (29:47.958)
Well, I mean, at its core, Apartment List is a growth company. And so I think what it looks like is we are helping significantly more renters find a home that they love than we did this year. That's the most basic answer to the question. That's what we're all about. That's our mission. And...

and helping more and more every year is the focus.

Nate Smoyer (30:19.97)
Number two, slightly controversial. How will AI impact the number of brokers and agents over the next several years?

Matt (30:28.85)
Yeah, it's a good question. As I referenced earlier, we really see Leopro and our leasing agent technology as really being complimentary to leasing agents. They are stretched so thin these days, they're trying to deal with everything from answering the phone, answering a hundred emails that show up in their inbox overnight, dealing with prospects coming into tour.

dealing with residents who are coming into the office because their toilets blocked up. And so there's plenty for them to be doing. And so we really see this technology being a compliment to them. And as I mentioned, the core focus is allowing them, particularly in just the leasing process, to allow them to have fewer higher quality interactions with renters when they are further down the funnel and have much higher level of intent, they've been better qualified.

And so that's what I see. And so the AI will continue to get better and have more capabilities and just allow more of that.

Nate Smoyer (31:42.88)
Alright, number three on For the Future. What's one industry trend you think will continue, but you wish would go away?

Matt (31:50.834)
Sorry, which will continue in what?

Nate Smoyer (31:53.854)
One industry trend that you think will continue, but you wish it would go away.

Matt (32:00.658)
One industry trend that will continue that I wish would go away. Huh, that's a good one. Um.

Matt (32:20.178)
Stump me on that one. Let me think about that one. Why don't you ask me the fourth one and then we'll come back to it.

Nate Smoyer (32:25.038)
Little people know how much joy as an interviewer I get when I get that awkward moment of silence there. I actually love it. All right, we'll go on to the fourth point here and we'll come back. What's one thing you believe will dramatically change or fade away in real estate as a result of tech advances?

Matt (32:45.17)
Sorry, you glitched for a minute there. Could you repeat that one?

Nate Smoyer (32:50.254)
What's one thing you believe will dramatically change or fade away in real estate as a result of tech advances?

Matt (33:03.442)
One thing that will fade away.

Well, I mean, I think for me it's just inefficient leasing processes, right? I think the biggest complaint we get from our users and our renters is getting dropped on the ground. They're interested in a property, they're interested in renting it, and they get a blank stare back because of all the reasons that we talked about in terms of just the constraints on the leasing agents. And...

Nate Smoyer (33:30.838)
Mmm.

Nate Smoyer (33:36.524)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Matt (33:37.266)
That's just an awful render experience. And so that's what we are pro and our technology is focused on. And so I think we're making good progress on that front. So I really do think that that's happening.

Nate Smoyer (33:53.742)
Very cool. And then you want to come back to the industry trend you think will continue, but you wish would go away.

Matt (33:59.826)
Yeah, I mean, this one is probably more of a general personal answer, right? But I think we're seeing renters needing to rent longer because housing is becoming less affordable. And I don't think that's going away, but I don't like that trend. I really think that...

we, you know, as a country, as an industry, you need to do more to make home ownership more accessible, frankly, for everyone. And that's, I think there's still gonna be a big part in the industry for renting, but I think it's that natural progression, right? And I wish that would go away. I think, you know, home ownership is the American dream and will continue to be. So yeah.

I'd like to see that turn around and start heading in the other direction.

Nate Smoyer (35:02.446)
Matt, thank you so much for coming on the show. I appreciate you breaking down what Apartment List has been building. Congrats on the launch of Leopro and some of the recognition you guys have received for your work leveraging AI in the rental marketplace, helping agents and renters with a better experience. Before we close out, for those who want to get in touch with you and or learn more about Apartment List, where do they go and how do they do that?

Matt (35:26.066)
It's really easy, apartmentlist .com. Everything you need to know about us and our company and also our platform is right there. Thanks so much, Nate. I really enjoyed the conversation. Thanks for having me on and great to meet you.

Nate Smoyer (35:45.27)
You bet. We'll catch you later.

Matt (35:47.25)
Thanks.

‍